What do you do with the cartoon as you advance the warp?  Should I roll it onto the cloth beam along with the woven warp?  Or is it best to unstitch it and let it roll free behind the warp?  I am working on an upright tapestry loom.  Thanks in advance!

As a side note:  this is pretty exciting for me that I am this far along on my project that this question has come up :-)

Comments

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 01:06

Artistry

Theresasc, I don't roll the cartoon around the cloth beam with the tapestry. It can make the top part of your cartoon be not square. I unstitch the part I'm rolling and just let cartoon roll on the backside of the tapestry. If the cartoon gets unruly you can put those clips on each side of the cartoon. Just my method. Maybe Tommye will chime in? I agree it's nice to see that much progress!
Sun, 01/12/2014 - 04:38

tommye scanlin

Teresasc, don't roll the cartoon with the tapestry.  I stitch about 1/2" away from the area I'm weaving, using a regular sewing thread and a curved needle, taking big running stitches.  I sew new lines near the top edge as I get to new areas (especially when there's something complex to attend to) and clip out the previous stitches.  Since I work by building shapes rather than from selvedge to selvedge, my stitching meanders around keeping close to the edges that are building up.

If the cartoon paper is long enough to interfere with the treadles as it's progressing downward, I roll it up and clip with long paper clips, just as Cathie says.

Tommye

P.S.  you can see some of these stitches attaching the cartoon at a couple of the photos in my projects, in fact.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 09:05

Erica J

Since there are great answers here already, I don't feel bad sharing a random factoid.

I was reading in Geir's A Textile History yesterday. She states that about the 14th C French Tapestry Weavers started drawing the main shapes of the cartoon on the warp and actually placed the cartoon behind the weaver for reference. Apparently this was done to allow a mirror to be placed behind the warp, so the weavers could check the front of the tapestry as it was woven.

I'm not saying anyone should do this, just think it's interesting to know what has been done in the past.

Cheers,

Erica

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 09:30

Artistry

Erica, That's really interesting. The first few tapestries I wove , I wove from the back , so I couldn't see the front. the instructor had us do them on a board ( NOT ideal) so you really couldn't see the front. It just about killed me, but what a surprise when we took them off the board! Cathie
Sun, 01/12/2014 - 13:17

tommye scanlin

Yes, Erica and Cathie, there are many ways to approach tapestry weaving and the historical aspects of the techique are quite interesting. Sometimes the culture in which the tradition developed is the determining factor in how tapestry is woven.  Other times, people learn tapestry techniques from workshops or on their own, and use a hybrid of methods either taught or "invented".

About weaving from the back, yes, many weavers have done and still do this.  The cartoon can be used to guide the inking on of the design to the warps, then removed.  A mirror can be use to see the back, as you've mentioned.  

I mentioned that I build shapes rather than working selvedge to selvedge.  There are many weavers who work like this.  But many others do methods (like double weft interlock) that are done from edge to edge. 

Then there's the warp position... upright or flat or nearly flat?  Again, many traditions for how this is done.  And all are equally right.  Many weavers today use upright looms, yet many also weave tapestry on horizontal looms.  Frame looms can be built quickly and cheaply or one may spend thousands of dollars for commercially made tapestry looms.

Just like with other methods of weaving, there are many avenues to follow.  I keep finding new ones all the time!  Tapestry holds never-ending challenges and rewards for me.  

Tommye

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 15:20

theresasc

the more I thought about it, the more sense it makes not to roll the cartoon up with the woven work.  Of course after looking at what I wove yesterday I will not have to worry about the cartoon - there is ALOT of unweaving to do before going any further <sigh>

Weaving has been a part of being human for so long that it is always interesting in learning about the twist and turns that weaving traditions have taken.  Thanks for sharing, Erica.

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 17:14

SallyE (not verified)

This is an interesting conversation!   As someone who hasn't done much tapestry, I have a dumb question:

Do all tapestry weavers weave from the back?   And if so, why?   I would think that it would be a simple matter to work from the front and hide your tails at the back, and that would let you see what you are doing.

 

Sun, 01/12/2014 - 18:01

tommye scanlin

Sally, Good question. Whether a tapestry is done from front or back sort of depends on how one learns. Some people also have a preference once they learn both methods. My own work is from the front although I spent about 6 years doing work from the back. One of the advantages of working from the front is that "what you see is what you get"... yet, when working from the back there are some techniques that are done more efficiently. Like if you're carrying one color to other places.
Sun, 01/12/2014 - 20:07

SallyE (not verified)

That makes sense - thank you.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 20:38

tonyaleacht

I have a question,  I want to work in 8-12 epi but find that with an 8.5X11 sized cartoon I can't get enough detail. So I have a larger loom coming (a 45") if I blow up the cartoon, can I still use 8-12 epi and get the detail I wanted?

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 20:45

pammersw

I don't do tapestry weaving but I've done stuff from charts, which is similar.  The "jogs" of the edges won't be any smaller,  but they will be a smaller percentage of the whole piece, giving the effect of a little bit more detail. 

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 12:17

tommye scanlin

Tonyaleacht, yes, both the sett and scale of tapestry will be factors in the detail that you can achieve.  You can consider the warp spacing almost like pixels--the more per inch, the finer the detail.  A circular shape, say, in 12 epi that's only to be 1" diameter would have only 12 warps in which to make the steps up, then back down, to form the curve.  At 12 epi, a 4" diameter circular shape would have 48 warps in which to exist.

My own work is usually at 8 epi, although sometimes I use 6 epi.  The scale of the tapestries in which I use 6 epi is larger, usually 45" to 60" wide.  Kathe Todd-Hooker (check out some of her projects here) uses much closer epi and the amount of detail that she achieves in her small tapestries is amazing.

Tommye

Mon, 01/20/2014 - 18:24

Kathe Todd-Hooker (not verified)

When working large format I also roll the cartoon in back when i am working large format. Most of the large tapestries I have done are as a contract weaver and have ranged from 5 feet wide up to 13 feet tall. I use clothes pins instead of paper clips. The roll rests on the back beam. Occasionally there is a roll of cartoon at the top in any format if the is too large for the weaving space. Some looms have a cartoon bar-some don't. I roll the tops of cartoons on my small Mirrixes sometimes if I am going to be turning the warp around the mirrix. The cartoon is closely sewn to the fell line and several rows of basting are left in to support the cartoon as you go. If you don't its easy for the weft ends to cause a distortion in the cartoon because of their bulk.. I am also very careful when I use cartoons to have a mark in several places on the the cartoon that matches a specific warp or two warps on each side of the tapestry to make sire everything is staying square and together. On large format tapestry I will also have a series of horizontal lines a foot apart to level the cartoon and make sure it stays square. If you don't do this the cartoon can be distorted to the side as much as 2-3 inches or over time another good reason not to roll the cartoon around the beam as you weave.. When working on large looms we will often use a level to to make sure the cartoon stays level. If everything is level you can measure the tapestry on each side to make sure it is square. The loom haas already been leveled before the loom is warped. Anything and everything to keep the two edges at he same height so that one ends with a rectangle and not a parallelogram.. When working small format I keep the cartoon sewn close to the fell line. Even an inch or so away can cause distortion of perspective if you just try eyeballing the cartoon as you weave..
Mon, 01/20/2014 - 18:26

Kathe Todd-Hooker (not verified)

Yes, you can.
Sat, 02/22/2014 - 04:10

Rita Weaverbird

I weave my tapestries on a simple frame loom (from the front) and generally just hang the cartoon behind. I am weaving a relatively large piece this time which fills the frame area. I am about half way and was struggling with the cartoon, as I have never thought of stitching it to the work! I have just done this and it is fabulous, thanks so much everyone. I have also just joined this site so it is great to get a useful tip right off the bat. Thanks again.