Hello!  I am trying to weave a small 22" wide bound rosepath rug.  My warp is 8/2 linen and my weft is hand-dyed 2ply rug yarn at about 1200 ypp.  Pretty fine.

I sampled!  I sleyed the center 4-5 inches at 10epi and it was slightly too tight, but the weft had no trouble packing down.   I changed the reed, re-sleyed the entire warp at 9epi (sleyed in a 12dpi 1-1-1-0) and now the weft will not beat down!!!

What changed since my sample? 

1) the reed and sett .  I went from 10epi (on a 10dpi reed) to a slightly wider 9dpi (on a 12 dpi reed)  and

2) the width of the warp.

Can the width of the warp affect the sett? 

Solutions:  I have tried: a temple (figuring the wider warp was drawing in more) but it didn't help.  I have tightened the warp and loosened the warp.  I have raised the beater and lowered the beater.   The thing is, I can pack the weft down with my fingers!  But the beater does not seem to be able to do it.

I"m stumped and could use any suggestions or ideas.

Thanks in advance!

Ruth in CA

Comments

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 18:25

sally orgren

Taking a guess here. Why did you think 10 epi was too tight if the weft packed in well?

When doing rugs (I am thinking of my Krokbragd experiences) it took several inches to see the weft actually pack down correctly. You didn't see it for the first inch or so, the rug wool wanted to "spring back" toward the castle. Is this what is happening? If so, keep weaving until you have a good sample a few inches deep and reassess.

If that isn't working, Rosepath is like a point twill threading, right? I am wondering if the skip in the dent when you went to 9 epi in a 12 dent reed, added to the floats in the design, makes for too long of a weft float when treadled? 

Not sure, maybe someone with more experience will offer some advice—

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 21:57

Ruthie99us (not verified)

Thank you for responding Sally.

To answer your question, the 10epi did pack down, but it just seemed a little too tight, so I thought 9 would be perfect...

I understand what you're saying about it taking several inches to really pack down, but it's not just not springing back, it's not packing down at all.

Thanks for trying!

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 23:21

Ruthie99us (not verified)

So I narrowed my warp down to 5", keeping the same sett of 9epi and it packed down wonderfully!  Strange.  I am going to keep adding bouts to each side can see if I can figure this out.

Sat, 05/18/2013 - 11:52

tommye scanlin

If you have sleyed 9 in a 12 dent reed you have some warps closer and some more open... I just re-read your post and see that you said you'd sleyed 1-1-1-0 in the 12 dent reed to get the 9 epi.  That does give 9 but it's still pretty much as if it were 12 epi since there are the three warps that closely together before there's a skip.  That's possibly causing some problem of weft not packing into place.

A second possibility that might cause the weft not to pack well over a wider width is not allowing for bubbling or arcing of weft in several places across the warp before beating. Hope you will resolve your dilemma! I know it's frustrating to be wanting to get on with it! Tommye Scanlin

Sat, 05/18/2013 - 12:24

Artistry

Ruthie99us,

I have had happen exactly what Tommye talks about, not having one end per dent all the way across the warp, the 12 epi. IMHO is what is keeping it from packing. a possibility if you have a 8 dent reed is to sett it at that way and then make your weft thicker, by making three plys, if your weft yarn will let you do it. take some of your weft yarn and try to unply it, then just wind the single ply with the 2 ply on your bobbin. It may make up the difference of the more open sett, pack down nicely, and not be " sleezy", (move up and down with your fingers easily.) You probably know the weft and warp ratio. but in case you don't here it is. wrap the warp closely over 1 centimeter closely. then spread it out over 1 inch. your weft should fit exactly between two warps. you could try that with the 3 ply before you go to the bother of resleying.

Sat, 05/18/2013 - 13:58

Ruthie99us (not verified)

To Tommye and Cathie, thank you so much for your responces and great ideas!  I appreciate you both taking the time to work on MY problem!

What I found was this:  it didn't make sense that a 5" wide sample of the same set (1-1-1-0) would pack down fine, but 22" wide of the same exact sett wouldn't.  Something was making that sett tighter at 22" than at 5" and the only thing I could think of was draw-in.  And yet, my weft was hanging loose off the edges so that there would be no draw in.  When I looked closely at the reed against the fell I found there was no draw-in for the center six inches or so, and no draw-in at the edges, but there was draw-in on either side of the center!  Have you ever heard of that????  That made no sense to me.  Tommye's bubbling thought might apply, but if that were the case, why wouldn't there be draw-in in the center of the warp too?  And my wefts did have approx a 45 degree angle.

What I did was to very carefully weave a couple inches of plain weave, having to adjust the offending warp threads after each pic, until I had enough of a web to hold those threads firmly in place.  Now the weft does pack down, not as well as the small sample, but better.  Putting a temple on a little further away from the edge than usual helped pull those threads straighter too.

Here's what the reed against the fell looked like:

||||||\\\\\\\\\||||||||////////||||||

Have you ever seen that before?  I haven't!

Ruth

Sat, 05/18/2013 - 14:38

Artistry

Ruth,

 I wish I could help you more! It sounds like you have improved the situation through your own ingenuity! Good luck, and hope you post the finished rug! Of course if you have more questions, hollar, other people may respond!

 

 

Sat, 05/18/2013 - 16:19

Sara von Tresckow

Yes, I've seen the warp draw in in places within the edges - it usually means that there are minor tension issues that resolve themselves this way. The use of a temple guards against this as well as excessive draw-in at the edge. Possibly the uneven sett was playing a role.

The suggestion to use an 8 dent reed with every dent filled is a good one. With a bound weave, it is not as serious to have a little "air" in the sett as to have too little.

Sat, 05/18/2013 - 21:47

Ruthie99us (not verified)

Thanks Sara - I'm glad to hear someone has seen this before.  It certainly had me stumped. I will check the tension again.  I don't have an 8dpi reed, so I will have to alter the threading anyway.

Thanks!

Ruth

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 14:48

Ruthie99us (not verified)

I just wanted to follow up on this topic in case anyone else should ever have this problem. 

The warp begins to dramatically draw-in (and not on the edges) from the first pic.  And I mean the very first, the shots you throw to space your warp.  Collingwood recommends putting in your temple on those initial spacing shots and then weave a header.  No amount of loose weft seemed to help - only the temple from the very beginning.

Whether everyone with a bound rosepath warp will have this problem, I don't know.  But after many many re-sleyings and tying ons, I'm confident it is not a tension issue.

Thank you to everyone who helped!  Ruth

 

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 22:45

sequel (not verified)

A narrow sample will beat very differently than a wide piece.  The wider your warp the greater the resistance to the beater.  Sometimes you just have to try it out to find the right combination.

Sun, 08/04/2013 - 14:46

Ruthie99us (not verified)

After having done two more projects like this one I can see now that the problem was completely draw-in which resulted from my not bubbling the weft enough.  Once I did that the problems disappeared.